Executive Interview Series: Jonathan Simkin, Co-Founder, 604 Records

The following interview was conducted and published by Merlin. Full transcript appears below.

Merlin’s Executive Interview Series is a monthly series featuring executives from across Merlin’s dynamic and diverse worldwide membership, discussing some of the most pressing topics, developments, and innovations in independent music today. This month’s piece features Jonathan Simkin, Co-Founder at 604 Records.

The Philosophy on Building and Running an Indie Label

Q: When you think about the DNA of 604 Records, what guiding principles or philosophies have shaped the label since its founding?

“The truth is that when Chad and I founded the label, we really had no idea what we were doing! At least when it came to running a record company.  I’ve always had a good knack for seeing an opportunity and when Chad and I successfully developed and got a deal for the band Default, coupled with all the success that Default and Nickelback had, I saw an opportunity for Chad and I to start a record label. That doesn’t mean I knew how to run a record label! In fact, I didn’t. Neither did Chad. So, we sort of had to learn as we went along. But there have been certain guiding principles from day one. First, as a label founded by an artist advocate and an artist, we knew we wanted to be artist friendly. That’s why we have never resorted to doing 360 deals. I love making money in the music business, but I love sleeping at night as well, and we did not want our artists to hate us. It has always been important that we conduct ourselves in an honest way and with integrity. And we have always stood out of the way of our artists when it comes to creative control of the art. That stays 100% with the artist. 

Another principle that has been in place from day one is that we have never relinquished control of our digital rights to any of our distributors. To this day, we retain all digital rights. Obviously, this was motivated in part by financial considerations, but it was also just something that made sense to me. We have done deals with distributors where we share some of our digital revenue. That was never the issue. The issue for me was always control, and I never understood why anybody would utterly relinquish control of their own intellectual property to a third-party distributor, especially when it is not necessary.  

I do believe that our lack of experience running a record label is part of the reason we succeeded. My experience was 5-6 years as an entertainment lawyer. But I didn’t even take copyright in law school. My practice was poverty law (criminal and refugee work) and I fell into entertainment by accident. But that is why I did not worry about the “standard” way of doing things. I just followed my gut and my common sense. If I had been more ingrained in the music industry when we started 604, I probably would have been too afraid to try so many of the things we did and that we still do! We were fearless because we didn’t even know what we should be afraid of!”

Q: What do you see as the unique advantages, and challenges, of being an independent label in today’s music landscape, not only in Canada, but globally, as indies continue to compete with and complement majors?

“We’re an interesting company in the sense that we’re not a major, but we’re bigger than most Indies, at least in Canada. So, on the one hand, we have enough resources and fire power that we can really move the needle for an artist, but we’re also small enough that we can be limber in how we do things. I like to think that we have a lot of the advantages of being on a major without a lot of the drawbacks.”

Q: Running an indie label means wearing both the creative and business hats. How do you personally navigate that balance, and what lessons have you learned about sustaining an independent company while staying true to the art?

“Because I’m a lawyer, I’ve been involved with every contract this company has ever done with a few minor exceptions. To me, that is part of what makes us unique. We’ve done all sorts of contracts that we probably would not have been able to do, at least not easily, were it not for my legal background. When someone says to me that something I want to do has never been done that way before, that’s music to my ears! I love coming up with contracts to address or create unique methods of selling music. As for the creative side, I had no idea I had a talent for finding talent. I was as shocked as everybody else in my life when the label started to succeed. I’ve always just signed bands that I like, and I guess I’m lucky that a lot of times the public likes those bands as well. At the bottom of it all, I’m a huge music nerd and the creative stuff has just always come easily.”

The Role of Sub-Labels

Q: 604 has developed a network of sub-labels over the years. What purpose do they serve within your overall vision, and how do they allow you to nurture different kinds of artists? How do you see sub-labels or imprints functioning in today’s music economy as a way to support niche genres, local scenes, or specific creative communities?

“We have four sub-labels, as well as a couple of special Imprint labels as well. Each one of them exists for a different reason. I started Light Organ about fifteen years ago during the height of so-called “Nickelback Hate”. I found that we were having trouble signing alternative or Indie bands because of the perceived affiliation with Nickelback. Nickelback’s never been on 604 (unfortunately!). But I found that we were having trouble in the world of alternative music because of that perception. That’s why I started that label,  to distinguish it from 604, and it was helpful. I don’t think it would matter today because the world seems to feel much more positively towards Nickelback now but, it’s probably a good thing we started it because Light Organ definitely has a different vibe and a different approach than 604. 

604 tends to be the destination for most mainstream acts, whereas Light Organ is the place where there would be more esoteric or alternative acts. Comedy Here Often started when we decided to get into the comedy business. And that just made sense because it’s such a different animal than music, and needed its own aesthetics, staff, and approach. And finally, INTRASET was started during the pandemic as an ambient label. Same thing really as Comedy Here Often. Putting out ambient music is so different then all these other genres that it just made sense to have it as a separate entity with its own marketing team and so forth. People already find 604 confusing because we work in so many  different genres. So I think it’s been helpful when there’s music or content that is its own animal so to speak to have the home for it be on a unique label.”

Q: How do you strike the balance between giving sub-labels creative autonomy and ensuring they remain connected to the broader 604 brand and mission? What does this balancing act reveal about the way indie labels worldwide are structuring themselves to stay agile while scaling?

“All of these sub-labels are under the 604 umbrella. They are all located in the same building in Vancouver. They share some staff. So, it’s always going to be connected to 604 in part because it’s literally housed in the same house as 604. And as with 604, we let the artists have full control over their art, so I don’t feel like we’re giving the sub labels creative autonomy, but rather the artist. I don’t really have a comment about the way Indie labels work worldwide. After the success of “Call Me Maybe”, we acquired a production facility in Vancouver which houses both our offices and studios, a soundstage, etc. Truth be known, I don’t pay much attention to what goes on outside of these four walls. I’ve almost intentionally avoided thinking too much about what other labels are doing. I just worry about what we’re doing here.”

The Way the Different Parts of the Company Support Each Other

Q: Beyond the record label itself, 604 operates across management, publishing, and other areas. How do these different parts of the business complement one another, and how does this interconnected approach reflect larger shifts in how independent companies are building ecosystems around their artists?

“Actually, 604 does not dabble in publishing. The very first band we signed was Theory of a Deadman. We did sign a publishing deal with them. But it became clear quickly that it was going to create some bad feelings, and we decided to basically rip that contract up and just focus on the record side. Having said that, we do have other parts of the company that support the labels. For example, we have a podcast network that focuses on our artists, our labels, our events, etc. That has been incredibly helpful. The podcast network supports the labels, and the label supports the podcast network. Similarly, our studio facility. Our studios were built primarily for our own artists, but they also operate as their own businesses and the studio definitely supports the labels, and the labels definitely support the studios.”

Q: In practice, how does this integrated structure benefit your artists and their careers compared to a more traditional, standalone label model? Do you see this multi-faceted approach becoming more common across the indie sector?

“I’ll start with the second question first. Again, I really don’t concern myself with what goes on across the Indie sector. But I will say that this integrated structure I feel has really benefitted our artist in both practical and promotional ways. From a practical perspective, our artists are encouraged to use our facility to create great content. The day that I’m writing this, we have a music video being filmed in our Sound Stage for one of our Light Organ artists, and a comedy music record being made in our recording studios. And we’ll probably do podcasts to promote all this content, which will also be recorded in and disseminated from our facility. I love that!”

Q: 604 has worked with a range of artists across different stages of their careers. How do you think about building not just hits, but sustainable, long-term careers for your roster?

“For me, the hits are the bonus. It’s the unexpected lighting strike that is a function of building a sustainable career. When we sign an artist, our first thought isn’t about hits. Our first thought is about the audience that we’re trying to reach. In fact, that’s usually the first question we ask when we sign a band. Who is the audience, and how do we reach that audience? Obviously having a hit can really help but I’d like to think that whether or not a specific band has a hit, they still have a legit shot of having a career if we can connect that artist with their audience.”